EDITOR’S NOTE: Marketer, Copywriter, Entrepreneur, Rob Marsh is the co-founder of The Copywriter Club and co-hosts the incredibly popular (at least among discerning copywriters) podcast of the same name.
He’s worked as a Copywriter, Producer, and Creative Director at various companies, including FranklinCovey, Publicis, and Hewlett Packard. Today he consults with a variety of tech and wellness companies to create effective landing pages, conversion funnels, and marketing campaigns at Brandstory Copy and Content. He is the author of the book, Telling Your Brand Story.
I’ve been learning from Rob for years, so I’m honored to have him stop by for a micro-interview! In 794 words, he shares:
Why good products (that meet real needs) fail…
The book he’s gifted most over the past 10 years…
The #1 thing that has made him a better copywriter…
And much, much more…
Thank you, Rob.
Let’s get started:
“What’s your work routine?”
I'm all over the place. I try to start the morning with some exercise and meditation then I'm usually at my desk between 7 and 8. When it's cold I run (though calling what I do running isn't fair to most runners) and when it's warm I bike.
Mondays and Fridays are dedicated to writing... either for clients or The Copywriter Club — the monthly print newsletter we send to members of The Copywriter Underground takes a lot of time and effort to write, plus there are emails, new products and more.
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Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays are usually filled with calls, podcast interviews, and trainings for the various groups we host. There's quite a bit of behind the scenes work for our events that happen on those days too. I try to write on those days too. I never work Sundays.
“What do you know about your work now that you wish you’d known when you first started?”
This is less about the work and more about myself... I wish someone had told me, "you're not as smart as you think you are, so spend more time listening and learning."
Actually they probably did tell me and I wasn't listening.
“What did your biggest professional failure teach you?”
When I was working for an ad agency back in the 90s, we had a client who had a SaaS product that was ready for market. This was waaaay before Salesforce... it might have been the first SaaS product... it was the first SaaS I had ever heard of. In fact, I was trying to wrap my head around why anyone would buy the product... wouldn't they rather have the disks and a box on the shelf with a user guide and all that?
Well, we put together a mailer that explained the product and sent it out to a couple of lists that aligned with their ideal clients. Then waited. And waited. The client got one call. It was a wrong number. Zero interest. Zero sales. It was a disaster. And it taught me a couple of things...
#1 you can't get ahead of your audience. The product was good. It met a real need. But almost no-one was ready for SaaS software yet.
#2 sometimes the work we create doesn't actually work. It's not ideal, but that's why we iterate and test. And just because something fails doesn't mean we don't know what we're doing... the converse of that is, just because something succeeds doesn't mean we know what we're doing either. We just keep trying new things, measuring the result, and repeating what works or fixing what doesn't.
“What’s the #1 thing that has helped you shorten your craft’s learning curve?”
Ending my isolation and spending time (usually online but often in person) with other copywriters (and a few other well-chosen people). For most of us, when we're around our families and friends... even clients, we are the best writers we know. I certainly was. And that was because I didn't know a lot of other copywriters.
Once I got into a mastermind with other copywriters, I was surrounded by people who were a lot better at this than I was. And I could see how much I had to learn (still have to learn). Being around people doing bigger things, working with better clients, and having more success, changes the way you think about your own business... and forces you to improve and grow.
“What book has helped you the most over your career?”
I can't choose just one book. But the book that I have gifted the most over the past 10 years is Don Miller's A Million Miles in a Thousand Years. It's not a business book, it's more of a life book. It's about what it takes to live a better story. After reading it, my wife and I decided to take our family to Europe for the better part of a year to have a different kind of experience than most families get to have together.
Two other books worth noting: Orbiting the Giant Hairball by Gordon MacKenzie, all about fostering creativity in less-than-creative environments. It's the best book on creativity ever written. The other is The War of Art by Steven Pressfield all about getting past THE RESISTANCE... something I still struggle with.
“And your parting piece of advice?”
Invest in yourself. Take a course or two. Get a coach. Join a mastermind. Listen to podcasts. Read as much as you can... not just copywriting books, but history, philosophy, science, psychology, fiction, mysteries and romance, comics, magazines, whatever you can get your hands on.
Surround yourself with lots of people who are better than you are at what you do.
And be kind.
